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| TECH TALK | . Steering/Suspension/Brakes/Wheels. | TECH TALK |
Q/ Our 414 , n reg 96 , has a problem with the direction indicators . After turning right sharply , if you then straighten up quickly not only will the indicator cancel but the left turn indicator will be activated. This must be caused by the self-cancelling cam as the indicator stalk is actually moved into position for a left turn .I have taken the steering wheel off and inspected the device but I can see nothing wrong , and when the cam is moved by hand everything works fine. The problem does not occur if you straighten up more slowly. Has anyone else had this problem and is there a solution ? Is it a recognised quirk ? (Chris Wright)
A/ This is a well known fault. Rover brought out a modified switch to rectify this problem.
hope this helps, Dave
A/ I own a Coupe turbo 94 M and my parents have 420SDi 96 N. Both flick to the opposite indicator. (David Williams).
A/ This might just be a quirk of his car as my old Volvo used to do this. He could possibly try filing the angle of the self-cancelling cam down a bit to 'lessen' the impact but it might not be worth the risk of loosing the self cancelling action altogether! He could also maybe try tightening up the indicator stalk to make it stiffer and less likely to 'flick' the wrong way. (Alex Carter).
Q/ I love my little N' 95 220 GSI Turbo but I have had so many problems
since buying it in December 1999. This is the list -
Water leaking into my spare wheel compartment, Oil Pump went, New windscreen, New exhaust
Alternator light kept coming on (started on the way back from Trax 2000), New Battery , Head Gasket leaking.
And now my ABS warning light has come on when driving home from work - do you have any suggestions why this would come on, as I restarted the engine and it didn't come on again. (Jennie Newland)
A/ Sorry to hear about your problems. Unfortunately exhausts, alternators and batteries are normal wear and tear and the leaking 2 ltr engine is well recorded, there is a heavy guage gasket available which appears to works.
Tha ABS will probably be a sensor starting to break down (unfortunately this happens as well) the light will start to come on more and more and eventually stay on. Although it doesn't stop the breaks from working, it does stop the ABS from doing its job and is an MOT failure if the light is on at the time.
Q/ I have just replaced the ABS pump on my Rover 620 si; as yet I have not connected it electrically.
I would like to know if I could bleed the ABS system myself. I understand that the pump can be run directly from a 12 volt dc supply to produce some system pressure, but only for 5 seconds in order not to damage the motor should it stall. I believe that I would have to operate the solenoids on the modulating block. Are the solenoids continuously rated at 12 volts, or should they be pulsed at 12 volts, or should they be operated at a lower continuos voltage. Is the bleed point on the modulating block connected to the ABS system or the normal brake circuit? I have information on checking the relays sensors and solenoids, but I do not know the set point of the pressure switch.
Should the accumulator be able to retain its pressure if the ignition is left switched off for a period of say 24 Hrs, or is there a built in leak rate so that the system can check itself from a static starting point. Out of curiosity I have stripped the old pump down. The motor had burnt out, but none of the fuses had blown. Thankfully to the failsafe aspects of this system, there was no loss of braking.
I found the pump rotor seized. I made a turning tool and with very firm pressure it started to turn. I was able to remove it, but found the 2 pistons also seized. Once again with firm pressure the pistons became free. I found that the only thing wrong with the pump was a very sticky yellowy brown gummy deposit had seized the pistons and rotor. A good clean and some fresh fluid had them operating correctly again. It would appear that if this type of pump approached a hydraulic stall, the reduction in speed of the rotor would stop moving the pistons outward due to the lack of centrifugal force, and therefore the pump would idle. I would therefore conclude that this pump failure was caused by deterioration of the hydraulic fluid.
I understand from my Rover dealer ( Lloyd Rover) that there have been a number of failures of the pump on the 600 series. This is borne out by the considerable difficulty experienced in obtaining a used spare pump. I am concerned that this could happen again, is there a recognised method of flushing the system out. (Colin Campbell).
Pump 3 A 4 (Cast mark) A 27 (Stamped)
A/ ABS fusebox under bonnet.Remove gold relay.Bridge 2 large connectors for 5 seconds to run pump.Locate bleed nipple on pump,attach pipe into a container and slacken nipple slowly until fluid stops draining. Repeat operation 5 or 6 times. Be careful as it is high pressure especially after a few times operated. Steve Thornton.
Q/ I would like to know if anyone could help with the maximum rim and tyre size that I can fit to my 600, without any wheelarch mods, now I have lowered it 35mm. I am particularly interested in the offset figure recommended and the actually effect that has. I am told that there are only a few rims with the correct offset that will fit under the arches. Larger offsets rely on a round profile tyre. (Dave Palmer)
A/ According to Revs magazine it's 7" x 17" with a 50mm offset and a small chance of modifications being required, or 7.5" x 18" & 50mm offset with major mods required. Having lowered the car I reckon to guarantee no mods are required a 16" wheel would be safer. Best bet is to speak to the wheel specialist who's selling you the wheels. I myself have 16" wheels on a 1992 216 with a 40 mm drop and I have no problems whatsoever.
The offset of a wheel has an effect on it's position inside your wheelarches. If you take the width of your wheel (say 7") and imagine a line down the centre of this, the offset is the distance between the mounting face and this line. A 50mm offset therefore has a mounting face 50mm from the centre line
of the wheel. Different offsets can have major effects on your car, including the following;
* High offsets cause the wheel to sit further in the arch, causing potential fouling problems on suspension components.
* Small offsets cause the wheels to sit out further which could cause outer arch/bodywork fouling if your car's lowered (especially if it's been lowered miles)
* Other problems I've heard of are poor stability (especially in crosswinds), braking problems, tramlining, and at extremes your steering being too heavy to move or the self centering action not working any more!
When you're out and about though you can often spot cars whose wheel offset are wrong. The wheels just don't seem to look 'right', usually sticking out too far (I've noticed this a lot on Vauxhall Corsas!). Try to stick to the Rover's recommendations as closely as possible.
I learned most of this from Revs magazine over the last couple of years, as I've not had any offset problems myself. Dec 2000 issue has an Alloy Wheel feature which contains loads more info on Pitch Circle Diameters, Offsets and Rolling Radius'. Again, your best bet is to buy from a wheel specialist and you should be fine.
I hope this helps.
Alex Carter
A/ I personally feel the answer is inaccurate - this is what I have found out recently, as I was thinking of 18s myself.
16s are no problem - My 620Ti is lowered and doesn't touch with 5 people in the car, even when hitting big bumps. This is with 205/50/16 tyres. I would put money on 205/55/16 going on no problem as well - there is loads of clearance!
7.5x17 fits perfectly with 215/45/17 or 215/40/17 tyres and 38-42mm offset. No body mods needed.
7.5x18 fits (just) with 215/40/18 and rolling the rear arch or 215/35/18 without rolling the rear arch.
Offset on the 7.5x18 can be between 38-42mm.
8x18 is a tight squeeze. Tyre choice is only 215/35/18, and 38mm offset needed with rear arches rolled.
The offset is much more important with wider rim and tyre combinations because the rear can foul on the suspension on the inside edge. Regards Grant Baker
Q/ I have recently purchased a 97 Rover 820 Vitesse and have experienced a problem with the brakes. The pedal has excessive travel before the brakes operate. The pads have been replaced before I got the car and I have had the brake fluid replaced and the brakes bled. The garage that bled the brakes suggested that it might be a fault with the master cylinder but I don't want to replace it until I am sure. Any suggestions please. Rodger Moon
A/ 800s do have significant movement of the pedal before the brakes bite - personally I like this as I think it improves progression. Try replacing the seals in the master cylinder before you replace it - but go to a dealer for the repair kit armed with your cars vin number. It might also be worth doing all the calliper seals too - they are cheap enough, it's just a long job (scrupulous cleanliness is required). Chances are a garage is bleeding the brakes properly without introducing air at the nipple, but try doing it yourself anyway (try one of the pressure bleed kits that are readily available - you'll need one for your 2 yearly fluid change anyway). Are you using the right fluid? Use high quality DoT4 fluid (not silicone). Has the car had the wrong fluid in it in the past (eg DoT5 or silicone) - these fluids cause the seals to swell at a different rate to that which they were designed for. Also make sure you are using good quality pads - cheap ones are liable to fade when trying to stop a car of this weight (it happened to me on an 827 I had - same brakes as Vitesse). My 96 Vitesse Sport has Tarox discs up front and OEM pads all around - I'm going to change to EBC Greenstuff up front soon. Also do not let the pads get any thinner than specified - brake pad material is difficult to bond directly to the metal backing and so the pads have a 2 - 3mm boundary layer where the material mix changes to allow good adhesion at the bond face, if the pads wear into this layer brake performance falls off sharply. Also check the condition of rubber hoses very carefully - with the engine running get someone to press the brake pedal very hard and move the steering wheel from lock to lock whilst you check the hoses. Use your eyes and your finger tips to look and feel for lumps or splits. Don't forget the rear hoses. Obvious though it may sound check all joints for leaks and all mounting points for security. Also check the thickness of the discs - some wear is to be expected, but if the car has been driven hard they may have worn below spec. Check that the two halves of the calliper can slide freely and the condition of the rubber boots.
Basically, go over the braking system with a fine toothcomb. Be methodical and careful (make yourself a check list and tick each item off as you go). Change any components that are suspect after completing all your checks. The answer will be there somewhere - don't get frustrated with it, that's when you miss the obvious faults. Personally I think no 1 suspect is air in the fluid, with seals no 2. (Paul Carter)
Q/ I am seriously considering fitting lowered suspension to my 623 and would be interested in other members views and possible experiences as to what I should fit and who I should have fit it. I want to lower the car about 35mm and I definitely want to fit springs and dampers at the same time. At the moment I favour the Bilstein 'SprintLine' Kit. Any advice greatly appreciated."
Thanks in anticipation and best regards
A/ I had many replies with good ideas. I eventually went for the Bilstein Sprintine kit, and dropped it by 35mm. What a difference!
Q/ I have a 820 vitesse sport lux 1995 n reg and am thinking of getting some new wheels and tyres. I am looking at some tsw evo-r 8x18 with 225x40 tyres but I need to know rovers wheel offset before I go ahead and get them. If anybody knows can you please let me know (Will).
A/ This should be of help to you! - PCD 114.3 - Offset 35 - C.Bore 64.0 (Matt)
Q/ My model is a 1990 214 Si which has been quite heavily modified. The car's brake discs have developed rubbing noise after they have warmed up. I have had the discs and pads replaced. The calipers were also checked but the problem continues. Does anyone have any ideas??? Also it seems to be on the drivers side and sounds worse when I turn left.
A/ Have the sliders/guide pins that the brake calipers move on been cleaned and greased with copper grease? I found these to be the problem when doing a brake overhaul recently, as a friends' 214 GSi had a rubbing noise when the brakes were warm. I know that if the guide pins corrode and stop the caliper from moving it can cause the brake to stick on, causing disc failure due to overheating. (Craig Duncan)
Q/ Can I put 16" alloys on my Rover 216 GTi
A/ Simple answer to your question is Yes, you can fit 16" wheels to a 200/400 series, more complex answer is, it depends upon off set, i.e: where the mounting face is in relation to the inner & outer edges of the wheel, if this is incorrect, then the tyre can rub on wheel arches or mechanicals, however a suitably qualified fitter should be able to advise.
Q/ I have a 1997 Rover Sterling 825 with the new Rover engine (designated KV6). Virtually from new, there has been a problem with the ABS warning light which comes on for two seconds every now and again when I am stationary in a traffic queue. The dealer has spoken to Rover, who say they have talked to Bosch but the problem has not been fixed. Changing various connectors have alleviated the problem such that it now occurs once or twice a month rather than five or six times a week. My car is now awaiting a new engine for a separate problem and Rover have lent me another Sterling 825 (1997 or 1998). This has the same ABS warning light problem!! Has anyone else come across this problem and have they resolved it? Kevin Honey
A/ I think you may be losing power to the ABS pump.In the fusebox are some fusible links.I have known these to be almost invisibly fractured,try pressing on them all and see if they fall apart. Steve Thornton
Q/ Are alloys wheels from Rover 200 & 800 interchangeable?
A/ No. 200 & 400 series are interchangeable, as are 600 & 800. But not 200 with 800.
Q/ Can I fit springs & shocks from a 216 MK11 on to a 214 MK11?
A/ Simple answer. Yes. You should encounter no real problems doing this.
Q/ My Rover 214(M-reg,'95) has now done 95,000 miles (as of 01/99), it's had FSH and all miles were done under warranty, but how many more can I expect to get out of the car, and is anything expensive likely to break soon? Also, referring to a previous answer about Webbers, chip and high-lift cams giving 120bhp as opposed to the current 103bhp, with this many miles on the clock - will it take it?
A/ We have assumed, rightly or wrongly, that being a modern engine & if it's serviced correctly that it will be good for around 200K+ miles. Perhaps only needing a cam belt change. Do any members have personal experience of problems with 214?
A/ I would like to say that my H Reg Rover 214Si had 177000 miles on the clock before needing new Head Gasket/Clutch/brakes & radiator. It had been serviced regularly, but only by a small local garage.
Q/ I was told by a friend that you cannot Superchip a 1.4 16v K-series engine,as the engine is already pretty close to the limit and would blow up after a few thousand miles.
A/ According to Tony Bolton of Moor Lane Garage (the town and phone number are lost I'm afraid, it was a long time ago) tuning a K-series is easy, as the bottom end is quote "Bullet Proof". Pistons were a problem on very early models, but this was cured by fitting heavy duty items on the line. The head gaskets don't like hot climates, so that should not be a problem in the UK. Tony throws away his injection unit and fits Weber carbs (two of 'em!), and with new cams a 1.4 should be good for about 120 bhp at the wheels. This gives about 30mpg @ 60mph.
hope this helps.
A/ In response to one members question about chipping his 1400 K series mine was treated to a Superchips Icon about 3 years ago at Moto-build along with a full exhaust system, FSE power boost valve and pipercross airfilter and it now has 107,000 miles on the clock and I have had no
problems with it at all. Rolling road sessions before and after showedapproximately 30bhp increase over standard.
In response to the answer to that question, Moor Lane Garage is in Preston, Lancashire and I have heard good reports of what he can do with the 1800 K series (i.e. 190bhp +)
Q/ My car is warping a lot of brake discs, and have been told that some Rovers (214SEi) can do this a lot. What can I do to stop this without paying the grossly-inflated prices that Rover dealers want to charge?
A/ You could try fitting performance discs, typically available from motobuild (tel: 0181 893 4553) & good quality brake pads. It has also been suggested that gentle, rather than late, hard braking could help to cut down on heat generation, which helps to warp the discs.
A/ A problem I had frequently on my 800 Vitesse. Someone sent me an email saying that they have had discs warp very quickly and were told this was frequent these days when used hard from new. Get them turned flat again and they should be less of a problem from then on.... (possibly due to the hardening effects of Heat treatment?!).
A/ Better pads and discs will help, but its mainly down to a lot of late braking. When you do replace your discs and pads you need to bed them in slowly, and I mean really lightly, meaning doubling your braking distance for at least the first 200 miles and then drive normally on them, and only start late breaking at about 400 miles. This is cause you are heat treating the brakes. Another tip is to never wash your car after driving it for more than say 5 mins, as they take time to cool.
Q/ The nearside front tyre on my 218D, with power steering, is wearing rapidly on both the outside & inside edge. It is a good quality tyre, the tracking & air pressure are ok?
A/ A Rover Owners' Club member had a similar problem with his SD1 Years ago. His problem was a slightly worn bottom ball joint and a steering rack that had been re-tracked off-centre. This meant that the rack was not equal when in the straight ahead position. The workshop manager at his local Rover dealer suggested this to him and it cured the problem. It would also be worth checking the top mount of the strut, as a poor bearing, or a top strut nut tightened with the wheels off-centre from straight ahead can cause the same problem.
A/ If using full lock with a bit of power, the tyre can tend to 'sledge' slightly, this causes wear on the inside or outside edge.
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